How much sound to bring to an event?

[Doug Miles]

I guess what I am asking is, do you have different "levels" or "packages" that customers can choose from?

I usually set up a basic 10 foot screen with (2) JBL EON 10 G2's. This is usually enough sound for a small gathering, maybe even up to 75-100 people (depending on how far spread out everyone is). Then, I offer an "upgrade" to EON 15 G2's if more sound is required. However, this weekend I had an event that made me rethink this.

I have been working on modifying some cases for carting around my speakers, etc. On Saturday, I finished 2 cases, and I wanted to try them out. I had a party, which was originally booked using the EON 10's. But I really wanted to try the new cases with the EON 15's, so I brought those instead. When I showed up, the customer was really worried because there was a party a few houses away with a band playing. It was fairly loud, and the customer was worried it would interfere with their movie. Right away I said, no problem, I brought my bigger speakers. I didn't even have the smaller ones, so I didn't say anything about charging more for the bigger speakers (since this really wasn't part of the original agreement anyway).

Long story short. We EASILY overcame the noise of the band, but should I have charged more for the bigger speakers? Remember, I substituted them just so I could try my new cases. But, in this case I'm glad I did. The customer was happy, and the party went well. It seems you never know what elements you might need to overcome. I'm just wondering if I should always plan for bigger sound?

[Mackinac Movies]

Through a 15 year DJ career, I have found that it is much easier to standardize your equipt, and setup the same thing most every time. I have the same set of amps and speakers that I use for a 75 person reception, as a 400 person reception. It is much easier to turn it down, then to try to add speakers and such on the fly to make it louder. Now, if I know it is going to be a huge event, I have a modular system, and can add more amps and speakers, but the reality is, 95% of my events are the same things. I know customers like to look at packages, and maybe pick between a 12 & 15" speaker, but do they REALLY know what they need to make their event a success? probably not.

[Doug Miles]

This is great to hear from someone with a lot of experience. I'm still using the 10" EONs for most backyard parties, but I am always worried it's not enough sound. I explain to customers ahead of time, and even though I'm not a great salesman, I try to upsell the bigger speakers. The problem is that most people don't want to upgrade. Of course they still expect me magically create "theater-like" sound over a 3-acre property. Sorry, it's not gonna happen. I've pushed the peakers to the max at times, but I don't like doing that.

The big problem I have is that in order to always bring the 15's it takes me another trip during setup. Doesn't sound like a big deal, but I work hard on reducing the number of trips. But, now you have me thinking I should always use the same (bigger) speakers. Hmmmm... gotta think about this.

Do you charge more based on the number of people (when DJing)?

[Mackinac Movies]

Originally Posted by Doug Miles

This is great to hear from someone with a lot of experience. I'm still using the 10" EONs for most backyard parties, but I am always worried it's not enough sound. I explain to customers ahead of time, and even though I'm not a great salesman, I try to upsell the bigger speakers. The problem is that most people don't want to upgrade. Of course they still expect me magically create "theater-like" sound over a 3-acre property. Sorry, it's not gonna happen. I've pushed the speckers to the max at times, but I don't like doing that.

The big problem I have is that in order to always bring the 15's it takes me another trip during setup. Doesn't sound like a big deal, but I work hard on reducing the number of trips. But, now you have me thinking I should always use the same (bigger) speakers. Hmmmm... gotta think about this.

Do you charge more based on the number of people (when DJing)?

Nope, well not really. I always price myself per-job. In Northern Michigan there is only a certain number of Saturdays that is useful for a wedding. And to top that off, I cap my weddings at 10 per year. So I look at it as I have 10 days to do a wedding, I am getting a minimum of $x (+ any strange costs like overnight lodging or a ferry service) But generally everything I do is based on a certain $ figure. My equit will handle 1 - 400 people. Anything more then that then it would be an 'upsell' but then again it almost never happens.

In this day and age, the economy is goig to hold the everyday person back to his budget. A higher end client will sometimes take an upsellgoing - but while a big thing is years past, I think that it is going to be tough right now.

It is up to you. I understand about the multi-trip thing. I used to need 10 trips with my rock-n-roller to get my DJ gear in. Now it is 4. (dumped the 20' long intelligent light show for some LEDs).

I guess what I am saying is, Is that one extra trip for speakers worth worrying about sound all the time, and what you are going to load into the transport for this event, and how things are setup? You sound like you are into customer service, like I am. Which means that you will go the extra mile, like pushing your equit to the edge if necessary. I killed a set of speakers like that once, vowed to never run on the edge again. Now I bring overkill, and turn it down, rather then run wide open all the time.

[Doug Miles]

I think upselling can work, even in a bad economy. But, it really comes down to your sales skills, which I am sorely lacking. Part of my hesitation in adding an extra trip is that I was hoping to consolidate enough to eliminate using my trailer for every party. Pulling the trailer can really kill gas mileage and I'm trying to cut costs wherever I can.

But you make valid points. I would prefer not to push the 10" speakers so hard.

[Mackinac Movies]

Originally Posted by Doug Miles

I think upselling can work, even in a bad economy. But, it really comes down to your sales skills, which I am sorely lacking. Part of my hesitation in adding an extra trip is that I was hoping to consolidate enough to eliminate using my trailer for every party. Pulling the trailer can really kill gas mileage and I'm trying to cut costs wherever I can.

But you make valid points. I would prefer not to push the 10" speakers so hard.

OK, then lets make the 10" speakers work better, not harder. Do you have a good multi-band EQ on them? I use a 32 band EQ on the DJ setup, and can tweak the sound for different setup areas. Another thing to consider, is a sonic maximizer. A few years ago I know some DJs sweared by those things, and said they made old speakers perform like new. (not that you have old or bad speakers - actually yours are great)

[Doug Miles]

Oh no, now you've gone and done it. You mean there's more to speakers than volume control? I only use a small Yamaha mixer right before the speakers. This is mostly to allow me to control the volume of L/R channels at once.

The speakers themselves have LF and HF EQ knobs. Hey that means 2, so technically that's multi-band, right? Honestly, I usually leave these set to dead center, unless I know the movie has strong bass for instance.

Do you think adding an EQ will help? Can you tell I'm not a DJ?

[Mackinac Movies]

Originally Posted by Doug Miles

Part of my hesitation in adding an extra trip is that I was hoping to consolidate enough to eliminate using my trailer for every party. Pulling the trailer can really kill gas mileage and I'm trying to cut costs wherever I can.

May I ask how your normal transportation goes? What do you use? and do you load things every time?

I understand some people are in a city driving environment, and can't always do a trailer. I took my DJ trailer to a job downtown Chicago, what a mistake!!!! NEVER do that again - and I am damn good at trailers, I can back any size rig into any space. Everything in that town is made for compact cars I swear! Even though I only took up 2 parking spaces, I always got charged 2.5 x rates!

I am in a fairly rural area. When I started my DJ Biz in college, I would get home at 3am, and have to unload everything, what a pain! I am older - and smarted now. So what I have found works for me, is to load everything I may need to most jobs in the summertime into my 5x10 trailer, and leave everything right in there. That way from week to week I don't have to worry about leaving something at home what I need it. Sometimes when I am doing a wedding ceremony or something, I will add that equip for that job, but the main rig, speakers, lights, CDs and cables all stay in the trailer. (or tetris puzzle as it is)

Originally Posted by Doug Miles

Oh no, now you've gone and done it. You mean there's more to speakers than volume control? I only use a small Yamaha mixer right before the speakers. This is mostly to allow me to control the volume of L/R channels at once.

The speakers themselves have LF and HF EQ knobs. Hey that means 2, so technically that's multi-band, right? Honestly, I usually leave these set to dead center, unless I know the movie has strong bass for instance.

Do you think adding an EQ will help? Can you tell I'm not a DJ?

OK, I am no sound wiz by any means, but I have been screwing with home and pro gear since 8th grade, so lets get this figured out.

You said " I would prefer not to push the 10" speakers so hard" You have good speakers, so lets go back to the beginning.
#1 How big are your typical crowds?
#2 What is it that you feel is lacking in your sound?

[Doug Miles]

Let's see, I use a trailer for most events. It's a 6x10 trailer. Originally I built shelves inside and organized everything really well. I was able to keep most of my gear, and backups in the trailer at all times. But, I soon realized that the key was, EVERYTHING ON WHEELS. So, now I have combined a lot of equipment into rolling cases with pneumatic wheels. Anyway, now I usually bring one set of speakers to an event, but I do always throw an extra set in the car as a backup.

I think I can answer both of these questions at the same time:
#1 How big are your typical crowds?
#2 What is it that you feel is lacking in your sound?

The real problem I have is the client location. Each year I do backyard parties for a dozen kids, up to larger township events with several hundred people. I don't think clients fully appreciate what it takes to get reasonable sound in an outdoor environment. This problem is really more related to homeowner parties. What happens is, I show up at Joe Clients house. He proceeds to set me up in the far back corner of a 5 acre property (against my recommendation), yet still expects me to provide movie quality sound across his whole yard (all the way up to the house, usually where the keg is). Not gonna happen. But, in this situation I explain the limits of the speakers and offer an upgrade (which to date has never been taken). So I end up running the volume louder than I would like (on my smaller speakers). I think my sound quality is good, I just don't always have the volume I need. If I just always used the 15" speakers, it would help many situations.

[Mackinac Movies]

OK, I get the picture now I think. Your problem is not sound quality per se, It is just good ol sound projection. Well, your eons are great speakers, but when you bring them outside, I think they are really only good for providing sound to the immediate area. Your experience will reinforce the major fact that when being outside, there is just no substitute for speaker come area on low freqs, and a good long through horn for the higher Freqs.

I think you are doing the job the right way now. I don't own the eons, so I can't vouch for their low end quality, but I question that a 10" speaker can produce the sound that you want over a large outdoor area, without a sub. The larger 15"s will certainly perform better.

What I do in these party type situations is this: (Right now I am also planning this for the movies too.) I setup my 15" in the central party area up front (I also have 18" subs, but that isn't important for this scenario) Power up the sound like you feel it needs to be, without being too loud (I have always had more compliments from moderate volume the too loud) Now your main party area is covered, now the trick is to cover the rest of the required area. I then add my smaller 10" or 8" along the sides of the area to fill in the sound when the main party sound falls off too much. Over really long runs, delay can become a problem, but usually I am the only one that notices it. I have a recurring job coming up this summer, and I am finally going to eliminate the cable runs, and use wireless mic transmitters to the remote speakers to get sound out there. If you have power speakers, that is even better, plug into an extension cord, and power up the mic pack, and bam - sound!

Now if you feel that your 10" speakers are not handling the the base as well as you like, and therefore you are not getting your required volume, then there are some ways that we can help that. Again, I will say that outside, there is just no substitute for cone area, however there are a few things that we can do to help that along. A good multi (20+) bad EQ, a low pass filter or crossover, and maybe a BBE sonic maximizer can help.

The bad thing I see about movies, is you need to optimize both for the soundtrack and explosions, but also the dialog. I could be tricky, but with some tweaking should be fairly straight forward.