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Sound Discuss all equipment used in sound reproduction regardless of event type. This includes speakers, mixers, amps & receivers, plus microphones, audio cables, etc

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Unread 02-28-2011, 08:02 AM   #1
big daddy
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Default QSC K12 Purchased

I have just taken delivery of my QSC K12's with 2 stands. Opted not to go with sub's just yet. They look great!!! Can't wait to try them out. You can only crank up so much in the house.

So after checking out the lenght of the wires...........the question for you guys that have the setups already.........what is the optimum length between mixer/projector and speakers required and what if you need to daisy chain? lengths of wires between speakers?

thxs.

Matthew
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Unread 03-01-2011, 10:15 AM   #2
Mackinac Movies
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HI Matt,
You are really gonna like those K12s, awesome speakers. I wish I could get a couple sets of them, but not in the cards.

I am not exactly sure what you are asking with wire lengths. Length from where you setup the head unit to where the speakers are? That will depend on screen size, your setup type, and the venue. Doug has most of his equipment next to the projector, and rubs wire from there. So some setups have everything at the projector location. I have my setup made to have everything off to one side of the screen, and run wires out to the projector location, with speakers on both sides of the screen. So I have shorter speaker cables (passive) and longer video cables.
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Unread 03-02-2011, 08:41 AM   #3
big daddy
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Hi Neil,

Since i have actually not even shown a movie yet, ( i am currently collecting everything for the upcoming season ) the appropriate question should have been.....what lenght of speakers should I been purchasing? 50fter, 75fter, 100fter assuming the QSC's will be used on either the 16 x 9 or the 20 x 12?

On another note since I am in learning mode -, does the projector actually sit by itself closer to the screen? and mixer/dvd player etc at another table? how far away typically should the projector sit from the screen?

thanks

Matthew
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Unread 03-02-2011, 09:37 AM   #4
Mackinac Movies
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Matt, you have a couple of different questions there.
#1, projector throw: That is all dependent on your projector, lens and screen size. Your manual, or www.projectorcentral.com will have that answer.
#2 I donít run active speakers, so I just run speaker wire. Since your K12s are active, what I would do is get a couple of 50í power cables, and 50í mic cables and pair them up. That way you can always work from a central point (whereever that is) and run your cables from there. That is the way I like it.

You will have to decide on whether you are going to go rear projector, or front projection. If going rear, I would probably set everything up with the projector and run your speakers to the sides from there. That is the way Doug usually does it, from the pics he posts, and it looks like a nice way of doing it. Everything centrally location, together, and easy to setup and cover if needed.

I run front projection. I have seen pics where people set everything up at the projector location out in the crowd. That works OK, and is probably a little faster to setup then my method, but I prefer to set my head unit up to the side of the screen, and run speaker cables to each side of the screen for the speakers, and then run video cables and an power cord to a small table out in front of the screen. If you go to my thread from last summer: http://www.msvnetwork.com/forums/showthread.php?t=203 you will see exactly how I usually setup.
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Unread 03-02-2011, 11:05 AM   #5
melchz
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grats on the qsc's. I think we are going to pick up a couple of the kw181 subs by end of summer. another local dj friend just bought 4 of the subs and 2 of the kw 12's so im interested in hearing them.

im with you on where to setup debate. currently running 2 mackie 450s and a sub. for ease of work i like being central in front of the screen but rear projection looks ALOT cleaner. personally i bring enough cable for both ways but am trying to figure out a better way for the front projection with me off to the side.
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Unread 03-02-2011, 02:06 PM   #6
Doug Miles
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I agree with Neil. A lot depends on front vs. rear projection. If I used front projection, I would set up how Neil does it, projector in front with a separate location to the side for all other equipment. That way you can easily monitor things during the movie without being in front of the crowd. Things like; time left in the movie, movie volume adjustments, volts/amps readings (if you have something for that), mic level adjustments (if you provide a mic), etc.

If you set up like this (front projection with head unit to the side) I would recommend using a Component video cable. Component cable can run pretty long lengths (I've run 100' without a problem) and it can carry 720p or 1080i signal. I don't think it can carry a 1080p signal. HDMI cable is another choice, but if I remember correctly, it is not recommended to go over 35' in length (give or take). I think you can begin to get a signal drop off over that length. I have a 35' HDMI cable and have never had a problem, but I don't know if 35' would be long enough to get your head unit where you would want it for front projection.

What type of audio cables are you using? I use XLR cables. The "sound" guys above can probably give a better explanation than I can, but XLR cables have a way of "canceling" interference. If you run a "balanced" signal through XLR cables, any interference in the cable gets offset, resulting in a nice clean signal. To be honest, I don't even know if I am running a "balanced" signal, but I have basically zero interference. So, either way, I'm happy. I've run 200' of XLR with absolutely no problem. Daisy chain together, daisy chain from speaker to speaker, doesn't matter, still great sound. For my 20' setup with sub I run L/R 50' XLR under the screen to the sub (directly in front of the screen), then 50' left and right to the first set of speakers, then 100' left and right of them to another set of speakers. All daisy-chained. Sounds awesome.
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Unread 03-02-2011, 02:47 PM   #7
big daddy
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thanks for the input guys...........

I haven't even shown a movie yet and I am already a worry wart. With a projector sitting out front all by its lonesome, is there any concern for little ones wanting to come up and press buttons?? ah!!!

Secondly, if you are daisy chaining speakers..........is there any concern about people tripping over wires and possibily knocking speakers over?

And speaking of speakers......what are u using for the stands....The TS series?

thanks

Matthew
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Unread 03-02-2011, 04:16 PM   #8
Doug Miles
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I wouldn't say you are a worry wart. Those are valid things to worry about.

Ah yes, kids... fun aren't they? The biggest attraction for kids is wanting to make "hand shadows". Which is fine, really. But not when they start touching your lens with sticky, gooey fingers. This type of equipment is a HUGE kid magnet. I haven't had much trouble with them wanting to push buttons, but that might happen more with front projection, not sure. Even when rear-projecting they think nothing of coming around to the back to "explore". I've used Caution tape a lot to try to rope off certain areas. But that really only slows kids down, it doesn't stop them. The moral of the story, ALWAYS keep an eye on your equipment.

Speaker cables can be a problem also as you mentioned. Having some extra length to your cables can help, that way you can run the cables out of the way as much as possible. Also, using "cones" or caution tape can help keep people away (or at least alert them). Another concern is "guy wires", if you use them to secure the screen down. When it gets dark, people can walk right into guy wires without seeing them. Again, I tie a few small pieces of caution tape (at waist level and eye level) onto the guy wires. This makes them more visible and seems to stop people from accidentally walking into them.

Not sure what the TS Series is. Is that from Ultimate Support? I didn't spend much on stands, but they've lasted well, even with a lot of abuse.
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Unread 03-02-2011, 05:14 PM   #9
Mackinac Movies
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Matt,
You have some valid concerns, however you have to remember, that although the client may be running the event, you are always in charge of the production, and the safety of the equipment. People should not be in an area where they could injure themselves, or your equipment, and don't hesitate to correct them if they are doing something wrong. Route all wires along the front of your screen, or along the edge of a venue whenever possible. Cables that go between a front projection setup and the screen should go dead center to the screen in the most direct way possible. There is no reason for anyone (including kids) to be in the triangle of the projector to the guy wire tie downs, or edge of the screen - keep them out.

Sorry, no help on stands - I don't use them.

Cables - standardize your lengths, probably 50' The longer ones get to be a pain to handle. If you need more, no problem, like Doug said, daisy chain. BUT, set that rig up, mess with it, and figure out how you like it - then spend some time and $$ to make setup and tear down easy - you will thank us... at 2am after a long night!

Oh ya, and to take a snip from our discussions from last summer, unruly kids are best handled with a tazer
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Last edited by Mackinac Movies : 03-02-2011 at 05:21 PM.
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Unread 03-02-2011, 08:24 PM   #10
JPR
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Hi Guys,

I love my K12's. Well as much as a man can love a speaker. They're great. I want to pick up a pair of subs soon. I originally went with the 25' doing both rear and front projection. I felt they were short on both occasions. My preference, 50' is the way to go. Agree with Neil, if front projecting keep everything in front of you.

Just ordered a box on wheels to store my equipment and hopefully simplify set-ups. Comes equipped with secret compartment to hide taser.
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